Margin Trading is in every aspect of financial markets outside of the game. Taking it out of Eve Online, reduces players ability to act as a larger competitor. This will only help the richer players who have the capital… Margin Trading is in every aspect of financial markets outside of the game. Ability to make potentially risky investments work in your favor. Each level of skill reduces the percentage of ISK placed in market escrow when entering buy orders. Starting with an escrow percentage of 100% at Level 0 (untrained skill), each skill level cumulatively reduces the percentage by 25%. For a maximum reduction of approximately 24% total escrow at level 5. Primary: Charisma. The ISK P/J column is a calculated price over the jumps between location A and B. After that calculation we also take a average of 7.5% FEE, so the price might be a bit higher or lower! Margin trading Every time you set up a buy order, you have to pledge money to your escrow account. When your order is fulfilled (a pilot sells an item to your buy order), the money from the escrow account will be used to pay for that item.
Been afk for a while (months and years even) but in Eve it should not matter…
This Toon was created for the sole purpose of scamming margin trading scammers…
And i did so successfully on many an occasion and LOVED IT!!!
Here’s an example of how it worked…
- The margin scammer put up the usual bunch of sell orders of ie. 100 pieces of “rare commodity X” ranging from 1000% to 2000% of actual value.
- a buy order is placed on “rare commodity X” for 5000% of value 2 jumps away with a min. volume of 100 pieces (only 23% is placed in escrow - and wallet is empty)
- The mark (sucker) buys all sell orders of “rare commodity X” - hoping to sell for 5000%
- When he tries to sell the order fails and cancels - since the buyer can’t afford.
- The mark now owns “rare commodity X” times 100 bought for ~1500% of value
here’s the counter scam
- buy all kinds of rare stuff at 0.01% of value over years… (then wait…)
- Find the scammers (check rare stuff regularly [insignias, tags, faction ■■■■] and look for buy orders with min. volume)
- sell 100 pieces of “rare commodity X” to 1100% [22% of buy order] - thus milking the scammers escrow - without buying a single one from a sell order…
- Scammer now owns 100 more (~200 pieces counting his own sell orders) of “rare commodity X” expensively …
- I’ve made 110.000 times buy price of “rare commodity X”
I think the organic sand box feel of Eve is encapsulated in this complex mechanism - and whether intended or not - it should still exist.
As I understand concepts like “Ganking” or “Mining Ops” were never designed by CCP but “invented” or evolved by players and then later embraced by developers - and the market powers are brutal and in-game scams is a given like bank robbers were in the Wild West… - marks learn the hard way…
Hard gained knowledge are the rarest and most precious weapons in Eve - and i loved perfecting scamming the scammers…
Also as director in a production heavy corp. margin trading is very useful. Especially giving smaller corps a chance to get on their feet - and scale up activity on many levels.
Making traders less effective results in less production and thus less gameplay for the gamers…
Please don’t simplify Eve to please alfa-players and protect the marks… Let the scammers scam so I can keep scamming the scammers
|This is a deprecated class syllabus, intended as historical record for the teaching department.|
Creating syllabi is no longer our process for new classes, and no classes in the syllabus library are considered current. They are here for historical purposes only, as well as an optional starting point for designing new classes. Please do not assume any of the classes you find here have slides, or have even been taught for many years. If you do use information in a syllabus, ensure that you have brought it up to date with contemporary EVE.
- 1Class Information
- 2Class Contents
- 2.2Station trading defined
- 2.2.1Pros and cons
- 2.6Liquid and illiquid assets
- 2.7Basic concepts in station trading
- 2.2Station trading defined
This is a syllabus for a class provided by EVE University. This section contains information about this class and its contents. General Information includes materials to create a proper class listing on the EVE University forum. Additional resources and teaching tips are listed under Notes for the Teacher.
Sample text to use in the class advertisement:
Illustration link for class description on the Eve University forum: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/File:Trade102.jpg
- Station trading defined
- Station trading theory
- Location, location, location: the big trade hubs
- Remote trading
- Liquid and illiquid assets, and margin trading
- Basic concepts in station trading: summarizing the Uni's excellent 'How_to_identify_items_to_trade' wiki entry, thinking about competition, turnover, and short- vs long-term thinking
- Optional practical
Notes for the Teacher
- Class.E-UNI chat channel, to receive questions and post relevant links
- Be docked up in PTS for the practical. Ideally have items you want to put on the market for the practical, e.g. a couple of Erebuses
- Ideally go through the guide and have links ready to drag into chat
- Make it clear that this is a starting guide, and that trading is very much defined by personal preference. Nothing here is set in stone.
- Useful links * are at the end of this document.
- Strongly consider combining this class with TRADE101. TRADE101 is necessary to understand TRADE102, and TRADE102 is more compelling than TRADE101.
Welcome to TRADE102--Station Trading!
This course assumes an understanding of the EVE user interface for trading: the market window, the wallet, how to place buy and sell orders, how to cancel orders, and how to find items in the market by browsing or searching.
Throughout this class we will use examples from the Metropolis region's market window.
Over the next 60 minutes or so, we'll define station trading, talk a little about how to think about station trading, and then we'll talk about how to go about station trading: trade hubs, remote trading, your ISK on hand and escrow, how to evaluate whether an item is good for trading, and tips and tricks for station trading.
Then there will be another 30 minutes for an optional practical exercise for anyone interested.
(Instructor should then introduce himself or herself - covering relevant experience level and background.)
We have a few ground rules for this class:
- Please put your Mumble settings on 'Push to Talk' if you have not already done so.
- Feel free to type any questions in the Class.E-UNI chat channel as we proceed - I will try to answer your questions as they come during the class.
- You should be docked up safely in a station
Everyone ready? OK, then - let's begin....
Station trading defined
- Buy low, sell high at the same station
- You never have to get in a ship
- Typos can result in millions of ISK lost (e.g. from broker fees, bad purchases)
Pros and cons
Station trading is both loved and hated in Eve, which makes it all the more interesting. Some people will make buy and sell orders for every personal purchase, while others will happily receive less ISK for their items to avoid setting orders.
- Station trading can be done during wartime, as you stay in station
- It is possible to make ISK while being inactive, most station traders check their items once or twice a day
- The risk/reward ratio is determined by you
- It is a nice secondary money-maker
- It is nicely combined with hauling to make a trader/hauler alt
- With skills, it can be done remotely (up to from anywhere within your current region)
- It is widely viewed as the greatest potential income source in the game
- Station trading can be highly frustrating
- It takes time and patience
- It requires initial research
- It requires math(ewww) and may require spreadsheets
- The market can lead you to get losses
- Items can move tediously slow sometimes, and might yield a profit after weeks
- It is limited by volume and competition
Station trading theory
- In addition to buy low/sell high, also think about
- velocity/volume: how often items are bought & sold
- competition: the more competing orders, the more often you have to update orders
- inter-region price variations: one region's market can look really good but be out of line with others
- Short-term vs. long-term investments: ISK/day vs. ISK/month
- You are trading wallclock time for ISK: buying low (so someone else gets their ISK now) and selling high later.
Location, location, location
- Trade hubs: see also http://eve-marketdata.com/station.php?step=Rank
- Jita (The Forge): several times the volume of the next highest hub
- Amarr (Domain)
- Dodixie (Sinq Laison)
- Rens (Heimatar)
- Hek (Metropolis)
- Station trade... from somewhere else!
- Skills: Procurement, Day Trading, Marketing, Visibility
The level of the skill determines the maximum distance:
- Level 1: system
- Level 2: 5 jumps from current location
- Level 3: 10 jumps from current location
- Level 4: 20 jumps from current location
- Level 5: whole region
- Using the assets window
- How to place buy orders for other stations
Liquid and illiquid assets
- General advice is you need ~10 million ISK seed money to start with station trading
- Station trading requires capital i.e. ISK
- How much stuff, and how much ISK, do you have: i.e. ISK and things that can be converted into ISK?
- Assets window: stuff you have sitting around somewhere
- ISK that shows up when you open your wallet
- *ALSO* items being sold
- *ALSO* ISK in your escrow account to cover your buy orders
- Programs such as jEVEAssets let you see all your assets, in your hangar, in manufacturing jobs, in sell orders, etc.
Margin trading reduces required escrow
- Margin Trading reduces ISK in your escrow account
- Margin trade scams
- If you see an order with a high price and minimum amount, this IS a scam!
The amount of escrow needed goes like this: (numbers rounded)
- Level 1: 75%
- Level 2: 56.25%
- Level 3: 42.19%
- Level 4: 31.64%
- Level 5: 23.73%
At level 5 this means that a 10.000.000 buy order only needs 2.373.046 ISK to put up the order.
Basic concepts in station trading
- It's smart to start off with explaining the window setup * for station trading - this way everyone sees what you see
- Using the quick bar
- Save good items
- Delete bad items
Let's first talk about the graph itself, all of which is based on the prices on the left side of the graphic, it contains:
- The green line is the 20 day average - meaning the average price over 20 days
- The red line is the 5 day average, basically the same but with 5 days so as to see the market fluctuating more
- The yellow dots are the daily median
- The yellowish bars are the min/max price
- The filled in red-ish area is the donchian channel
The bottom is actually not part of the lines, and should be interpreted differently. This is the daily volume, and the amounts are stated at the right side of the graph.
Furthermore, there are a few features belonging to the graph:
- You can switch certain things on or off, by right-clicking the graph
- You can set the time-span of the graph, from 1 year to 5 days with different intervals. 3 months is recommended.
Obviously, this is detailed and complicated information. To effectively use this knowledge learn the Bullworth Burger Method
The table is a less powerful means of identifying items then the graph, but it can be useful in case the graph is hard to read or if specific number are needed. (I myself use it to identify daily amounts more precisely for my spreadsheet)
- Total daily orders
- Quantity of items traded
- Highest daily sale
- Lowest daily buy
- Average daily sale/buy
It can be sorted by any column.
- Review several example items that are good sales or less good sales, and talk about how you determine they are good or not.
Many people use spreadsheets
Station trading always requires math in order to know what you're doing. Google documents is a HUGE help with this.
Since I couldn't put it on the wiki in excel or open office file, I put it up as a pdf.
The formulae show how to use a spreadsheet to know your actual profit margin, daily earning potential and your overall wealth change.
A few notes:
- The brokers fee and tax will have to be modified when you have the proper skill
- You can copy the whole row, and then you only have to modify: name - buy - sell - daily quantity
- Actual wealth is hard to keep track of, but the most common formula is: buy orders outstanding + sell orders outstanding + cash
- Always go for a low quantity sold per day, it's better to not overestimate your market share
- The truncate function is very handy to keep oversight, it is: =TRUNC(formula, digits after the dot)
Out-of-game web sites such as eve-central and eve-marketdata exist. Some external services pull data from the EVE API, which has many restrictions on how often data can be pulled. Others pull data from people's game client caches, limiting the type of data available. Also, these external services can be 'poisoned' or sent bad data.
Tips and tricks
Here are a few tips and tricks which apply to everyone who takes up station trading:
- Never reveal your trade secrets - people will steal them from you
- If something looks too good to be true, it probably is. Analyze why this is, perhaps ask others, but in the beginning stay away from it. It can be a scam or a bait-order to get you into lowsec.
- Underneath the browse window in market is a button 'show only available' - turn this off
- Put EVERY item in the quick bar and then delete items you don't like, this makes it easy to keep track
- Integrate items in the station services window: ESC -> general settings -> station -> check 'merge items and ships into station panel '
Eve Margin Trading
- Diversify - don't put all your ISK in one item, also don't put all your money in high-risk trades
- Be careful while putting out orders - when you start you will have a low limit. For every item try to keep only 1 buy order open, and 1-2 sell orders, this way you won't go over your limit and keep oversight. Yes, this means you might need to wait until an order is filled.
Remric had a practical which might be nice to do. At the beginning of class he would give someone sensor boosting scripts to distribute among everyone in the class channel who x-ed up. Every student would receive one script.
This script also served to show people how to set up buy and sell orders.
Eve Margin Trading Tool
After class he told everyone to put up sell orders for the scripts, telling them that he would buy one script between 1 and 2 hours after class. The student who sold the script to him would win, and receive 10 million ISK.
Eve Margin Trading Skill
This lead to very interesting behavior, as people would get scripts from Hek and put them up, making profit from other people trying to buy out the whole market while others were waging hardcore 0.01 ISK warfare. It was very illustrative, as one person won, other people made profits, prices shifted heavily, and I lost 11 million ISK due to surplus stock which I'm still selling off.
Eve Margin Trading Skill
He used sensor booster scripts because they're cheap and can be traded in bulk, other items can of course be used.